Dark Heresy - OpenRPG

Dark Heresy forums for several games ran on Veav's server in OpenRPG.
 
HomeRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Inquisitor Bartholomew

avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2009-05-02
Age : 39

PostSubject: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:21 am

i have felt and continue to feel that the rules for rogue trader better represent psychic powers. to this end i feel it necessary to create the rules for using pyrokenesis in rogue trader so if we decide to use martial psykers in rt or use the rt rules for dark heresy, its available. i have not gone into depth of what each power does only the basics of purchase and necessity as its already described in the game elsewhere. your opinions are more than welcome. you may notice that the more ubiquitous powers are free as is common with the other powers giving some leeway as a young psyker. if you have further scrutiny, or even if ive done it wrong, please let me know. or just a pat on the back. pat on the back is always good.

Pyrokenesis

Activation Time: Half Action
Maintainable: Yes
Focus Power Test: Willpower
Basic Technique: Create Flame, Sculpt Flame
Range: 5X psy rating

Create Flame:
Free
Prerequisite: None
Focus Power Test: Willpower
Range: You

Sculpt Flame:
Free
Prerequisite: None
Focus Power Test: Willpower
Range: 5 X pr

Resist Flame:
Value: 100 exp
Prerequisite: None
Focus Power Test: none
Range: you

Burning Fist
Value: 100 exp
Prerequisite: None
Focus Power Test: None
Range: you

Fire Bolt:
Value: 100 exp
Prerequisite: None
Focus Power Test: Willpower
Range: 100m

Blinding Flash:
Value: 100 exp
Prerequisite: None
Focus Power Test: Willpower vs Agility
Range: 12m

Douse Flames:
Value: 200 exp
Prerequisite: Firebolt
Focus Power Test: Willpower
Range: 5 X pr

Incinerate:
Value: 200 exp
Prerequisite: Firebolt
Focus Power Test: Willpower
Range:10m

Wall of Flame
Value: 200 exp
Prerequisite: Burning Fist
Focus Power Test: Willpower
Range:60m

Firestorm
Value: 300 exp
Prerequisite: Firebolt, Incinerate
Focus Power Test: Willpower
Range:50m

Holocaust:
Value: 600 exp
Prerequisite: Firebolt, Incinerate, Fire Storm
Focus Power Test: Willpower
Range: 6m

Molten Man:
Value: 400 exp
Prerequisite: Burning Fist, Wall of Flame, Firebolt, Douse Flames
Focus Power Test: none
Range: you


Last edited by Inquisitor Bartholomew on Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
Chosen One



Posts : 169
Join date : 2009-05-04

PostSubject: Re: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:16 pm

The only reason I might disagree with such a port from Dark Heresy to Rogue Trader, assuming you are making these powers available to Astropath Transcendents (if these are just for RT Imperial Psykers, then cool), is because Astropath Transcendents aren't actually Imperial Psykers. Certainly they have psychic powers, but Astropaths themselves are never passed into the care of the Scholastica Psykana, as they are too busy keeping the Imperium alive by sending messages.

I think the reason why Astropath Transcendents can use psychic powers (besides of course the fact that no one would play them if all they could do was send messages) is because they are so skilled and strong of will that they have learned how to move beyond their lack of training and branched out their abilities. Hence why all Astropaths start in the Telepathy tree and can branch from there (having to reach level 3 before they can do so). They are just following what comes natural.

I think the game designers for RT were trying to avoid he insta-kill and epic-win buttons from the repertoire of psykers. The present Focus Power systems results in FAR fewer Psychic Phenom. and Perils of the Warp rolls, so they probably didn't want overly powerful abilities sneaking their way into the game and turning psykers into nigh invincible gods of war that had almost no fear of their power backfiring.


As for the actual skills themselves, pretty good, though I disagree with the XP costs on quite a few things. Nothing should be "free", in my mind, and something like Holocaust would fall in the 500 xp bracket (if not more, considering how powerful it is compared to other 500 xp bracket abilities).

I'd also say you should replace using the WP bonus for range with psy rating as the RT system uses, just to keep things constant.

Last but not least, on blinding flash, i'd just make it a WP test and then let the person roll agility as a basic test to see if they can look away, as per the normal rules.

Them thar be my two cents.


Last edited by Chosen One on Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Inquisitor Bartholomew

avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2009-05-02
Age : 39

PostSubject: Re: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:26 pm

i had thought of the holocaust exp cost a little earlier today. i agree with 500 exp for it.

as for the "free" ones, these are just like the divination telepathy and telekenesis powers which come with being able to do it. its automatic, i just used the simplest tricks of pyrokenesis. each school gets a certain ammount of free leeway just by virtue of being from that school. for instance, telepathy gets the ability to send and recieve messages mentally without having to purchase it.

and yes this is just for rt imperial psykers, if say, we wanted to make a dh imperial psyker for rogue trader, or if we wanted to use the rt psyker rules in dark heresy. mostly because i like the rules for them in dark heresy.

i also agree with the pr vs wp comment. i think tis better to stick with the rt rules to keep it even.

i was actually considering making holocaust more like 600 xp. it is by far the most destructive and irrecovably brutal power in the game. however, it also has the potential to murder the user LOL especially when you cant heal yourself via psychic means

so other than that, do you think these changes are more acceptable?
Back to top Go down
Inquisitor Bartholomew

avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2009-05-02
Age : 39

PostSubject: Re: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:22 am

heres a question. Rogue Trader doesnt allow for degrees of success, only success or failiure, which basically means that if you pass, you get damage equal to the psy rating. this complicates things, because the rogue trader rules DO allow for this.

i propose that instead of the degrees of success, you get a number equal to your pr, much like stated in the rules for many of the telekenetic attacks. basically, say, force bolt, would do +1 bolt per pr, and each different target would require another wp test. (i.e. if you hit one target with 2 bolts you need one wp test, if you hit another target with 2 more bolts you need another) of course, this is affected by fettered, unfettered and push also.

Reading the Force Shards power, it allows you to make a BS attack and for every degree of success you gain another 1d10, instead of relying on the PR dice. this is probably better, because it means that theres a chance you might get one shot off or 4, kind of like a ROF weapon. of course, it specifically says in the firebolt description that you use your wp instead of bs, so it seems safe to say to me, that, instead of saying a number of attacks equal to psy rating, you would gain a number of attacks equal to your WP roll successes, and, controversially, Range penalties apply? yes or no?

I am indeed using the telekenetic powers as a template in this, as they are the most direct attacking powers. my thoughts are, though, that this balances out. because the Force Bolt has a set damage of 1d10+5 with 0 pen and the flame attribute, it is safe to say that the bolts are complimentary in that the telekenetic bolts do the exact same thing, except that you gain 1d10+pr and a pen = to pr. which means if you are pr4 your bolts do 1d10+4 pen 4 damage per hit. this can be potentially just as devastating, though catching someone on fire IS very nice.

powers which have a specific visual affect such as sculpt flame where you get clearer images of people the more degrees of success you have would be indicated by the amount of psy rating you have instead of degrees of success.


Powers which do not boost number of hits but instead damage would do either +2 damage per psy rating or +1d10 per psy rating. for instance, Firestorm does 1d10 more damage per degree of success. so, if you used 3 pr and suceeded in casting it, you would gain 2d10 extra damage. Firestorm is a pretty moderately powerful spell so it is understandable that it would be this strong. im in favor of the multiple dice, but if others feel strongly against this i am equally in favor easily of the +2 damage per psy rating in the area affect. both attacks are potentially devastating.
Back to top Go down
Chosen One



Posts : 169
Join date : 2009-05-04

PostSubject: Re: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:02 am

Here's the thing Vlad, and its been my main concern through this whole project of yours.

Balance.

In DnD spellcraft is limited to how many spells you can prepare a day. In something like exalted you have to consider the amount of mana/motes you have left. Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader don't have those. They have the dangers of the Warp.

Having played the RT system as a psyker for quite a bit now, I can say that the system and the powers granted in that system are appropriate. I say this because while the powers may not hit as hard in the RT psyker system, there are SUBSTANTIALLY less risks with the warp. I have only ever invoked psychic phenomenon ONCE in the game (and I have not been stingy on the use of my powers) and that only came from the time I used Push Focus Power which forces a pyschic phenomenon roll every time. There is only ever a 9 in 100 chance of invoking the warp in the RT system. It never increases. Psy rating only increases the strength and utility of a power, never increases the risk of use.

In DH, while I might have had concern with stuff like Holocaust and Soul Rape, it was balanced by the fact that you needed to roll at LEAST 4d10 dice to be able to activate them with any reliability. This in turn meant you had a 4 in 10 (or 40%) chance of activating the psychic phenomenon (which might not be pretty in and of itself) with a 25% of Perils of the Warp which can really go to town on you. Mathematically that meant 10% of the time you got raped by warp manifestations. The powers were amazing but they came at great risk. RT lacks that great risk. Unless you are pushing every power, you will be able to blow everything out of the water with the Pyrokinetic powers with very little risk of sucking down a warp explosion liberally applied to your own cranium. I really don't think more power is required in the RT system.

IF you want to create a system where higher psy ratings DO somehow increase the risk of psy phenom and perils of the warp, sure. Adding more "umph" to a pyrokinetic might not be unreasonable seeing as they were designed for war, as opposed to the Astropaths which were designed to stay out of trouble. But until the risks of power usage become much more apparent (i.e. increased chance of Warp trouble), i'd say leave it alone. You already got a really sweet deal in using the RT system for DH powers.


Edit: On a further note, any disciplines as seen in the RT book that have a mirror discipline in the DH book (such as telekinesis, divination and telepathy), should just be used as seen in the RT book. If you want to invent new powers that are similar to what you see in DH and put them into RT, go right ahead. Just make sure you run them by the GM of your game to see if he or she will clear them as power suggestions rather than as part of the natural tree.
Back to top Go down
Inquisitor Bartholomew

avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2009-05-02
Age : 39

PostSubject: Re: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:00 pm

while i do respect your opinion and appreciate your input i couldnt disagree more. the telekenetic powers turn a psyker into a walking ball of destruction just as much as the pyrokenetic powers do. the only difference between the two is that the pyrokenetic powers have the chance to set you on fire, but your armor is more effective against it. for instance the difference between force bolt and firebolt is that force bolt damage and pen is dependant on the pr of the user, whereas the firebolt damage is set and the pr is 0.

with divination you have a chance to autowin and see the future, also, the chance to become a super ninja slaughtermonkey with -30 to hit you, +20 to your dodge, melee and ws attacks.

its all in how you look at it. the only psychic school in my eyes not absolutely devastating is the telepathy school as it shouldnt be devastating. while i agree with some of what you said, i dont think its fair to push the psychic phenomenon angle on people. after all, eisenhorn used his powers constantly and never got swallowed by the warp.
Back to top Go down
Felix



Posts : 51
Join date : 2009-11-16

PostSubject: Re: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:42 pm

just to throw my two cents in here, if all your looking for really is fluff, why not describe hitting something with telekinetic as fire, no game differences or anything just more interesting ways of describing things?
Back to top Go down
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 120
Join date : 2009-05-02
Age : 34

PostSubject: Re: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:08 pm

A few things...

1) I have to agree with Chosen, the powers chosen by the Astropaths are not the same as a psyker and shouldn't be comparative across systems. The "Super win" features are also higher tiered powers and require several other powers in place before they begin. There are a myriad of reasons they do not allow them off the back in the psyker system.

2) Eisenhorn is also a fictional character, compare his exploits to Fukalw and see who really ever got hurt for the sake of heroics in a fictional work. You cannot compare them to a system where if they were dropped into a table top game, would get munched far worse than they do in the author's mind.
Back to top Go down
http://dhopenrpg.forumotion.net
Inquisitor Bartholomew

avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2009-05-02
Age : 39

PostSubject: Re: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:05 pm

hmmm. i see everyones point and i concede. ill drop the pyrokenesis in rogue trader bit, mostly because youre at 5000 exp before you even get pr2 anyway. so i guess your points make alot of sense to me.
Back to top Go down
Inquisitor Bartholomew

avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2009-05-02
Age : 39

PostSubject: Re: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:06 pm

Felix wrote:
just to throw my two cents in here, if all your looking for really is fluff, why not describe hitting something with telekinetic as fire, no game differences or anything just more interesting ways of describing things?

mostly because pyrokenesis sets people on FIRE! FIRE! hehe ehehehe ehe fire ehehe fire fire fire!
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules   

Back to top Go down
 
Pyrokenesis using Rogue Trader rules
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Rogue Trader Era Metal Models to sell Ork, Slann, Eldar etc
» Maximum Warband Size - House Rules
» Charlatan/Rogue warband?
» Cursed hillman HS rules
» Rules for mounts and riding

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Dark Heresy - OpenRPG :: General Information :: General Discussion-
Jump to: